Thanks, but no thanks

After the dinner I had with Josh the other night, I thought things were going pretty good. Then late yesterday, I get this jumbled mess of thoughts from him:

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Hi..

Thanks for having me over last night.. Your kids are precious.. It reminded me of what it was like when my kids were small,..not that long ago.  I found myself wondering, as I was driving to my appointment after leaving your house what a huge responsibility it is having kids.

I think we need to communicate about what we’re looking for in a relationship at this time.  I know as I continue to see you and the kids that I will grow attached….and I admit to having some some reservations about doing that..

This is my first exploration into a relationship after four years of basically being alone except,of course, when spending time with my own kids. Prior to that there was a 10 year period of marriage, one that ended very badly..I still think that I am a bit damaged as a result of what happened. Consequently I am feeling somewhat fearful about developing attachments right now in my life.  And I know that being with you means developing an attachment not only for another person but for three people..I’m already feeling attached to your daughter..she is the sweetest little girl..and quite frankly I don’t know if I can handle all that right now.

And of course I enjoy hanging out and talking with you..and I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t have strong sexual and ‘romantic’ impulses going through my mind when I think about you or when I’m with you.  There are time when I wish I could find a women who was what they call on the internet dating sites ‘a friend with benefits’..and not a potentially heavy committed relationship.. That might be all I can take on right now..I’m not sure..

But on the other hand, I don’t want to cheapen or shortchange any possibilities for having a serious committed love relationship in my life again..and I know that one thing usually leads to another..I know I sound confused because I’m starting to feel that way.

Is it ever possible in male female dating relationship to just to be open-minded, friendly, non-judgmental, non-possessive, non pressuring, unpresumptuous…every relationship I’ve ever had seemed to be exactly those things..Now I’m not saying that we are..I’m not even sure where this is going.. but I think it would be a good idea early on to define what were both looking for.. whats ironic about me saying this is that I’m afraid I might hurt your feelings or upset you if I come right out and say what I’m looking for..is that strange or what?..I’m just not sure after seeing whats involved in you life and where you are in life right now if I can give you what you need..of course, I’m being presumptuous by saying that..so that’s why I think we need to define these things before continuing on so we know what to expect or what not to expect…Oh God..I don’t know if this is making
any sense at all so I’m just going to send it off to you and hope that you can try to understand…

I am very much out of ‘practice’ in my adult interpersonal interaction skills or dating skills..whatever you might call it..and I’m just trying to get my feet underneath me again.  I do know this Maddie.. I really like you..I like communicating with you, I think your really pretty, I fantasize about you,,(not in a stalker way so relax ok:) and I have a nice time when I’m with you.. I just want to be honest with you..so even though I might not have done a good job articulating my thought I am going to hit send before I have second thought about trying to edit myself..email me back ok?..

Josh

OK, we’ve seen each other exactly twice. I really don’t know where this is coming from. But my guess is that he wants to see me very casually, have sex, and well, whatever else. Which would have been fine if that is what he did without presenting it verbally as if it pained him terribly to actually DATE someone. But in all honesty, I have fuck friends. I’m not interested in another one. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard this in the past few months: “I really like you but I’m not ready for a relationship.” At least Josh was kind enough to stay out of my pants before saying it.

To: Josh
From: TODP
Subject: You’re off the hook, LOL

Josh,

After giving this a little more thought…

I think I kind of get what you’re saying — “I can’t deal with someone else’s kids right now but I’ll fuck you if you want” — and I think maybe we are looking to get different things out of this. I really hadn’t given it much thought until now, but it seems likely that we’d be inviting broken hearts if we continued with this.

I think you are a great person and fun to talk to, but it doesn’t sound like you are open to the possibilities. I appreciate that you don’t want to take advantage of me or introduce more chaos to my life. I have a lot to offer and I would really like to eventually find someone who fully appreciates the package deal. Preferably someone without stalking tendencies, LOL.

I wish the best for you.

Secretly, I hope he emails me back and says I misunderstood and that he really wants to give it a go, but I am relatively certain that won’t happen. Besides, it would do nothing but boost my ego. I had enough reservations about this guy anyway, and this email of his really took it over my limit.

Dinner was…

NICE!

As I was chopping carrots and potatoes last night, I kept telling myself, it would be OK if I canceled with Josh. This pot roast was going to get cooked one way or another.

And all day today… I was all in my own face. If you weren’t that keen on him, move on! No, you should give him the benefit of the doubt!

I’m glad I did.

Dinner was actually very relaxed, very casual. After I got the kids on to their bedtime routine, we sat and talked. And talked. He can tell a good story, very animated, very all over the road yet focused on what he was trying to say. And he didn’t bring up an ex at all this time. Well, once. I joked with him that we covered all the ex stuff already, and he seemed to get that I didn’t want to hear about that anymore.

He is a very gentle person, very perceptive. And I forgot almost completely that he is 19 years older than me, except when he mentioned things like aches and pains and that he would never go skiing again at his age and hadn’t been for 15 years. Thank goodness for that. I have never had a desire to ski.

I’m really glad I went through with it. I think I got back a little of that self-esteem I had been losing sight of… and I even started to imagine Josh naked! Gasp!!!!

He was very polite and left before 10. Gave me a peck or two, nothing to indicate that he was sexually driven, and while I can appreciate that in a guy… well… I had hoped there was a little bit more desire there.

But then he asked to see me again Sunday.

Unfortunately I already have plans. But I look forward to seeing him again.

Second date

Josh is coming for dinner Wednesday. I talked him into my pot roast instead of the take-out Chinese he suggested. I can’t say I’m enthusiastic about it.

But he is. I don’t know why. So I’m interested in seeing why.

I think I’m still hung up on my recent ex. Not to the point that Josh is, talking incessantly about it to anyone who will listen. And it’s been four years for him.

Last time I was hung up on an ex, it was very ugly, and I started seeing a therapist, who told me to GET OUT THERE AND MEET PEOPLE.

I’m pretty sure she meant men, because after I picked her out of the phone book I discovered she was actually a sex therapist, and asked me direct questions like, “How do you feel about blow jobs?” Not fellatio, not oral sex…

But last time dating actually worked. I quickly forgot about that ex. And I mean quickly. And then I met Tom.

I think the difference this time is Tom, the guy I recently split with, is a really nice guy, and he is still a really nice guy, and I measure new dates to him. The other guy? Total fucking asshole. It took a sex therapist to see that and steer me on my way.

Soooooo… this afternoon I had an appointment with a different therapist. One I have been seeing since I decided the sex therapist wasn’t exactly what I was needing right now, seeing as I didn’t have much of a sex life.

I won’t rehash the whole episode, except to say, I miss everything about Tom, from the way he talked to my children, to the way he gestured during TV shows, to the way he fucked me, to the way he parallel parked his minivan, to the way his deoderant smelled. I didn’t date him very long, a handful of months, but I think I am still very much in love with him, and this whole experiment is making that ever more apparent.

So is it fair to keep going with dating? Do I need more time to regroup?

My good friend jokes that the best way to get over a man is to get under a new one.

I guess if I handle it in a lighter manner, I’ll be better at it.

‘Goodnight kisses’

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: tonight..

Maddie..
Just wanted to tell you what a nice time I had meeting you tonight.  I really do like you..and enjoyed your company.  I’m looking forward to seeing you again sometime soon, I hope.  and btw..that was so sweet of you to pay for dinner..of course, I will buy next time.  Let me know what your schedule looks like with the kids over the next few weeks.  If its too hard leaving the house, getting sitters etc., I can always come over after they’ve been put to bed..bring the beer and Chinese food..whatever.  Just an option as I know that getting away is difficult when you have the kids.
In closing, I’ve got to tell you..the little goodnight kisses were wonderful..I was smiling all the way home.

see you soon…
Josh

I wish I felt this way too. But instead I came in the house and cried a little. My sitter said, “I think you should call Tom. He was such a nice boy.”

The date: Josh went on about his ex-wife as soon as we got in the car. And when we got to the restaurant, I discovered this wasn’t even THE most recent ex-wife, the one who gave birth to his children. He was married to this second one for 10 years.

Then it went on to the Iraq war — “Would you want your kids to go over there and be dead by age 20?” I asked. “I would be proud if they served,” he said. — to Rush Limbaugh — “I agree with most of what he says.”

I paid the bill because I wanted to wrap it up.

When he kissed me at the end of the night, I was hoping for a little passion to make up for what should have been a flirty first date… EH.

Well……

What to do here.

I’m wondering if I’m ready for an actual relationship, but at the same time, I’d need someone to blow me away to penetrate my skeptism,  and maybe having my guard up isn’t a bad thing in the search for the right person.

If I do see him again, I will insist that talk about exes is off limits. That was tiring, keeping track of new boyfriends and husbands of his exes. Whew.

Pinch me

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Good morning..

Maddie..I would love to go out with you!! I mean…yeah..sure..lets go out

I have my boys Saturday, and Mon and Tues nights.. I can make any other night of the week work. Do the kids visit with their father on any given evening? or ..we could go out earlier in the evening so I can get you back home earlier if you would have to get a sitter or something. Either way let me know what your schedule looks like.

My cell number is [XXX-XXXX] and my home is [XXX-XXXX] if you feel comfortable calling. I’ve got a busy day ahead and wont be back to check emails until around 6. then I am going to see a friend of mine’s band play for a few hours tonight so its going to be a bit hectic. They asked me to sit in on a few songs so it should be fun.

Thanks for the happy start to my day..talk to you soon.

Josh

To: Josh
From: TODP
Subject: Re: Good morning..

Hi Josh, I have my kids all weekend… I have full custody of my oldest but only 50/50 with my son, so I tend to not go out when I have him. Next week I’ll be short one kid on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and I won’t have him that weekend. I have a great sitter, so I’m not worried about that.

I have a quiet weekend planned… hopefully it won’t be too cold because I still have a lot to do outside, but it doesn’t look like the weather will be in my favor. Oh well. Have fun tonight; talk to you soon!

Maddie

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Re: Good morning..

Hi Maddie..

Wow what a week at work..I’ve sold more policies than I ever have in any given week of my entire 7 year career..when it rains it pours sometimes.There are other weeks that nothing seems to happen..go figure.

Maybe next Friday or Sunday..either would be fine for me..do you like seafood?..I can take you out somewhere relatively close to home so we can get you back easily. Whatever your most comfortable with.

Btw,,I would help you with clearing that stuff out of your backyard but wont be able to for another week or so..I have my right hand carpal tunnel repair on Wed. I literally blew out both hands slaving away on this house for seven years..I had my left hand done last year and it turned out great!..(being a musician my hands are a bit of a concern). But my point is, don’t hurt yourself doing ‘mans’ work in the backyard.. (I’ll let that sink in for a moment……are you OK?….Ok..)more specifically, if you need help lifting heavy stuff you could leave that for me if you want..when my hand heals that is…I don’t mean to sound too presumptuous,.. like I will be hanging out at your house helping you out in the backyard..but hey..you never know how things will turn out in life. I always enjoy letting my mind wander at the possibility of things..of course we might
not feel a connection either..and if that’s the case we can still enjoy a nice evening and maybe just make a new friend. That’s fine too. As I said before..there is no pressure or expectations here..

I do hope to someday find a soul mate. I don’t know if that person exists or not, and when or if I’ll ever find her. But I am excited about taking the first step. I’ve been lonely for a long time now and this will be the first time I’ve ever gone out on a date in almost four years..(don’t worry!! you’ll be safe..another advantage of dating an older guy.. we tend to have a little more control of ourselves..which may have not been the case in our 20s and 30s..lol)

The important thing is that I have found happiness with myself and am comfortable with who I am and where I am in life right now..so I am in a great position to share myself with someone else..sometimes it takes a while to get to that place..

I hope to chat with you soon..I gotta get going..I have some rock n roll to play tonight!! Now there may be some 20 year old chicks there tonight doing the bar scene..but I promise..the last thing I need in my life is some 20 something chick..it’s like they come from a different planet..my anticipations are with you tonight Maddie..

I’ll email you again on Sunday OK?….

Have a good weekend..and remember..no heavy lifting.

Josh

Age is a number

Right? After a seemingly wonderful email conversation, it is finally revealed. At first I sat at my computer and laughed my ass off when read it. But then I thought about why it scared the socks off me — I’ve leaned toward older men who tend to not “get me” — and realized I have to stop projecting.

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

Hi..
My name is Josh..your posting made me chuckle a little bit so I thought I’d email you. The getting hurt ‘bad’ got my attention..
yeah..that’s pretty much what happened..but as they say..’life goes on’.. I have been single now for almost four years..and I’m contemplating getting back out there into the dating scene..haven’t actually made a move except respond to a handful of ads..but nothing has panned out yet..its rather strange after 10 years of marriage and four years of self imposed exile from the world…but I do stay busy. I spend most of my free time between my two young sons, renovating a big old house, recording my new CD, and of course working each day.. I’m not going to get into allot of detail yet about myself but would be happy to if you express an interest in learning about me. I do have a website up to promote my music which would at least give you a little background ..a few staged pictures etc. . got to www.josh[xxxxxxx].com

If you would like to communicate further let me know..would love to talk sometime..have a nice night;)

Josh

To: Josh
From: TODP
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

Hi Josh,

The website is very cool. And WOW are you handsome. Um, I mean… ah… you’re not bad. LOL

How old are your boys? Do you share custody? I have a daughter who is 6 and a son, who is going on 1. You could say I have my hands full, but I have been trying to get out more and have some fun. Not that yard work isn’t rewarding.

How tall are you? Kind of an odd question to start out with, but I’m a little on the tall side…

Is music your full-time job?

And where is [Xxxxxxxx]? I was raised in [Xxxxxxxxxx] but I’ve spent much of my adult life in Florida. I moved back two years ago. Oh, I’m 34… you?

Maddie

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

Hi Maddie,

Happy to come home tonight and get your message..Thanks for the compliment..it’s been a while since I’ve been called handsome…gee!…but I guess I do look pretty good for my age..(I’ll leave you hanging on that one for a while…..my.. you have so many questions:) I will tell you that I bet I’m taller than you.. and quite certain that I’m older than you. Btw..I just love the name Maddie..always have… my youngest, he’s 10 and my oldest is 14..oh how I love my boys!! But I don’t want to get off on that tangent right now..I will attempt to streamline my responses a bit..into more bite size pieces and be more to the point,..which, by the way, your very good at…I feel myself hungering for more..lol

I don’t want you to think that I’m just some lonely guy whose whole world revolves around his kids and his work..ahemmmm.

On with the questions and answers..

Yes, I have shared custody, but only get them on Mon and Tues nights and all day on Saturdays during the school year but for a week on week off during the summers..we’ve taken some great vacations over the past few summers. But, I too, spend my fair share of doing yard work during the summer.. this year I planted 16 shrubs and 5 fir trees, plus a berry garden..(which was a terrible failure) ..I spend tons of money on berries…raspberries are up to 5.00 a quart..oops there I go again!

[Xxxxxxx] is just north of the city,..10 minutes from downtown. I bought a very old, and somewhat large home in 2000 and finally last November I finished a six year long remodel-rehab-restore.. and it looks so beautiful! I think it was rather like therapy for me during the demise and eventual destruction of my marriage,.. working on the house like that, obsessing over every detail and………. (might you get the impression that I am just bursting at the seams to communicate with someone a bit older than a 10 and 14 year old….?)

sorry..

Lastly..and sadly..music is not my full time job..I was a therapist for about 12 years but right around the time I bought this house I had decided to change careers..I now have an insurance brokerage business. I like it allot. Of course it would be nice to play music full time but I am a responsible adult after all…but it doesn’t mean I still can’t go out and act like a teenager once in a while. I play 1-2 times a month.. usually private and corporate parties..a one man band of sorts.

Wow..Florida eh?..that always sounds so appealing when it gets to be this time of the year. I go down there time to time, my brother lives in Orlando. He’s the one, by the way, that told me I should join an online dating service. He says he met a few nice girls online …..I just cant seem to muster up the motivation yet to write some flattering profile about myself.. explaining why I would be such a great catch to a woman who is looking for a good man etc..I mean all that is true!don’ get me wrong!..but how would I do it in such a way where someone could understand without thinking that I’m being overly….oh Maddie..I apologize! there I go rambling again,…

Well it’s past my bedtime and I have early morning sales appointments..(I’m kickin butt this week!) So its been lovely chatting with you..I would love to hear more about your kids..your past, your present, what you might be looking for at this time in your life,.. and all those other things, I hope, sometime in the near future..I’m only an email away..goodnight..

Josh

maybe you could send me a picture of the family…….

To: Josh
From: TODP
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

Hi Josh….

Hmmmm…. you have me wondering about the age thing now, LOL. Are your website photos 10 years old??

I’m attaching a couple of photos of me and the kids. (Holding my breath, LOL.)

I know exactly what you mean about bursting at the seams to communicate with adults. I went back to work in March after three months off, and even though I really really didn’t want to, every morning I walked into the office and sat down at my desk and just felt so relieved to be among adults.

That’s interesting that you were a therapist. You didn’t enjoy it? Did you have a specialty? Like maybe, crazy people? LOL. Geez, maybe I shouldn’t have just told you that I was relieved to get away from my kids!!

I work at [xxxxxxxxxxxx]. I really love the work, but it seems it’s becoming more and more irrelevant these days. I have some ideas about what I’d like to do next, but I’m just not ready to make that leap right now.

I just bought this house recently, so I’ve been busy tailoring it, so to speak. It actually was flipped right before I bought it… the hardwood floors were refinished, new bathrooms and kitchen… I spent a good year looking for a house and this one is perfect for us at this time. I would love to do a veggie garden next year; this year I managed to get most of the flower beds planted. My yard backs up against the woods and there is a ton of debris in the back… mostly wood and trimmings and stuff like that. I’ve spent that past two month’s worth of weekends just trying to burn all that stuff. OK, damn, I’m going on and on.

Your brother sounds like a great guy. It’s hard using personals, I’ve discovered. There’s a lot of fruity people out there. I don’t plan on expanding into professional dating… I’m not desperate for a relationship, I am just in a good place in my life, very happy, and I thought it might be time to give it a shot.

You sound like a busy guy… and yes, I’d like to learn more about you… like maybe your age, for cryin’ out loud.

Maddie

To: TODP
From: Josh
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

well Hello Maddie..

Nice to hear from you ..and thank you for the pictures…what a beautiful bunch you guys are!! your kids are so cute…. and you, are so very pretty…your daughter is quite the ham it would seem and the baby reminds me of my youngest when he was a baby..you are so blessed!

OK..about this age thing..first let me point out that your ad didn’t state your age, and I might add that I never asked you your age when I responded to it…it’s not a big deal to me..

(btw..did you see the guy who posted in reference to your ad.. here is the copy
..Re: Read the fine print ‘DO you have an age? You could be 25 or 70 from your description. I’m 35 and interested in chatting with you:)

so Maddie..apparently I’m not the only one causing burning a curiosity about ones age..lol…is it just me or does that guy seem a bit obnoxious and a bit light in the tact department?..

Anyway, I just celebrated my 53rd birthday..and no those pictures on the website aren’t 10 years old..they were taken in September of this year..

And yes I know I look allot younger than my age..people always tell me that anyway. I definitely don’t feel 53 whatever that might mean..I come from a good gene pool I guess..my grandparents lived into their mid 90s and my mom is absolutely gorgeous for her age. I’m in good health, although I could stand to lose 10-15 pounds…I’m 6′ 1″ and a bit over 200 lbs..there..another question answered..making progress here eh?..

I was an occupational therapist, graduated in 1980. I really loved working with people but couldn’t take the paperwork anymore..I decided to get into sales in 2000 and have never regretted it. I’ve been awarded ‘Agent of the year’ for the past four years.which basically means I got these cool glass award trophy things and nice week long all expense paid vacation every May..I took my mom and dad and the boys on trips last year..it was a blast!

Your house sounds really nice..I was just out that way today in fact…(no..I am not a stalker).. I drove to the Township Offices..I wrote up policies on two policemen…small world eh? My grandparents lived their last years not far from there.. I visited them every Sunday for nine years there. I really miss them.

Well..I hope to hear back from you..it seems that age is an important criteria for you..I mean you must have asked me 4-5 times directly or indirectly how old I am..yeah.. I’m an older guy..but hey.. I prefer to look at it as a positive thing..I believe there is a reason allot of women prefer older men..I mean you’ve dated guys your own age..you tell me.lol..I remember the way I was in my mid 30s and I wouldn’t want to have dated me….wow..did that sound weird!! anyway, no pressure or expectations here..it would even be nice just to have someone to talk to..but I confess..I think that you sound really nice.. and your a very pretty women..I think we should consider going out for dinner sometime. I would promise not to keep you out late and I would be a perfect gentleman..think about it..OK?

Goodnight
Josh

To: Josh
From: TODP
Subject: Re: Read the fine print

Hi Josh…

I have to admit, I was trying to add up the numbers and guessed you were in your 40s. Which doesn’t at all bother me. And at the risk of making it seem like age is an issue… I have dated older men, and I was kind of trying to avoid another fiasco like that. But I realize that it’s not about the age.

But I hope you understand I am open-minded about it. Or at least I have been in the past and should make a great effort to stay that way!

I look a lot younger than I am also… always have… it’s a family thing. Once when I was 17 visiting Orlando with my dad someone referred to him as my boyfriend. UGH! So I know where you are coming from… I get carded on the few times out of the year I get out to a bar, and I’d probably get pissed if that stopped.

I quickly realized that posting a personals ad was an invitation for the weird. I should have put my age in the ad, but, well… would you have responded if I did? I didn’t make a conscious effort to exclude it, and I’ve gotten a lot of weird shit in response. And I probably wouldn’t want to have dated you in your 30s as much as I spared you from my 20s.

OK, now we can stop talking about age and personal ads. LOL

Dinner would be nice, and if after all my rambling about stuff that’s not so important hasn’t backfired on me, I’d like to hear that maybe you are available soon before some 20-something chick gets in my way!

Maddie